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Jul. 17th, 2008 @ 10:20 pm Remember when all you had to give me was a flower?
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1x06 Discussion

Many apologies for lateness of post - have had horrendous internet problems this week and just got back online tonight.

I am such a sap. When Jin held up that flower in the airport, I cried.

flower


Were most of the episodes in S1 so full of marvelous stuff and I didn't realize it because TPTB were giving us all those unanswered questions?

We found out a bit about Jin and Sun, we got a lovely dose of that wonderful S1 Charlie-snark, there's a nice tidbit about Walt's non-relationship with his father, Adam and Eve are discovered, and -oh look!- Charlie's guitar. What did you feel was most important in the episode?

Please continue to use "SPOILER" as the subject line of your comment when talking about later episodes. Thanks!
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Lost - waterfall
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From:falafel_musings
Date:July 18th, 2008 01:54 pm (UTC)

Possible Spoilers

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I really enjoyed this ep. One of my S1 favs. This is why Sun was in my top five favourites in the early days. She has never been more compelling. I love that despite all the hardships and strains in her relationship with Jin, they always loved each other. The moment with the flower (pictured above) was very touching.

I think this episode starts to reveal that even though Jin looks like the meaner spouse at the beginning, Jin is really the more innocent of the two of them. Sun is incredibly sly and deceptive. She's quiet and deadly. But she has a heart too. Yunjin shines here as always.

Aww. Charlie stepped on a bee hive. Silly Charlie. "It wouldn't be an irrational fear of bees if I could just pull myself together, now would it!" Oh, the snark was good in this ep. I still love The Great White Hunter nickname for Locke.

Speaking of which, I love the Charlie/Locke scenes in this episode and the next one. Oh Locke. You used to be so cool. I seriously miss the generous Locke of S1. He believed in tough love for sure, but at least he cared about other people. I love the expressions on Charlie's face, first when Locke tells him he was a Driveshift fan (priceless!) and then when he sees his guitar again and he tears up.

I think this group split between Cave Camp and Beach Camp was much more compelling than the S4 split. It showed which characters were being drawn into the island and which characters were still very wary of the island. The final montage to 'Are you sure this is where you want to be?' was the perfect way to highlight this mood. Interesting that Jack and Locke are on the same team this time.

Adam and Eve? The black and white stones? Add those two to the very large pile by the 4-toed statue of weird shit that was introduced and then never even referred to again. If Lost gets into a time loop then I think Adam and Eve will turn out to be Jack and Kate.
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From:matitablu
Date:July 18th, 2008 03:51 pm (UTC)

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I think this group split between Cave Camp and Beach Camp was much more compelling than the S4 split. It showed which characters were being drawn into the island and which characters were still very wary of the island. The final montage to 'Are you sure this is where you want to be?' was the perfect way to highlight this mood. Interesting that Jack and Locke are on the same team this time.

This is very spot on! Especially regarding Jack. The fact that he's actually settling in the island vs. him being crazy about going away in S4, highlights how often what Jack wants isn't what Jack needs :-)

I believe the Adam and Eve thing has been addressed more than once by the authors as one of those things that will actually get an explanation in the very end, so I'm pretty confident about that one. The four-toed statue... not as much. :-(((((((((((
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From:luna481516
Date:July 18th, 2008 04:46 pm (UTC)

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These early episodes are just the best, aren't they? We meet everyone's background for the first time. HOTRS is a favorite of mine for the island action and not so much for the flashbacks, as it still branded Sun & Jin in the traditional mold although showing that Jin was a hitman or strongman or something. The flower at the airport was sweet and hopeful though.

I think this episode starts to reveal that even though Jin looks like the meaner spouse at the beginning, Jin is really the more innocent of the two of them. Sun is incredibly sly and deceptive. She's quiet and deadly. But she has a heart too. Yunjin shines here as always. It's only much later that we see the O.Henry-type irony that Sun herself put Jin in the position that creates her distaste for him in the fb's.

Oh Locke. You used to be so cool. I seriously miss the generous Locke of S1. Word. He was a great guru and mentor before his obsession with the island took over his good sense. "Look up", and Charlie's reaction, reminded me of Desmond's "you have to lift it up" to Jack in the stadium - both could be interpreted as religious and both Charlie and Jack misinterpreted what was meant; whether it was literal or spiritual.

I think this group split between Cave Camp and Beach Camp was much more compelling than the S4 split. It showed which characters were being drawn into the island and which characters were still very wary of the island. Oh, that's an interesting way to explain the divide (although at the caves Jack was being pragmatic and the others seemed interested in comfort and safety - Hurley, I don't think, was being drawn to the island) I never understood the big to-do about Caves vs. Beach. Why not just agree and plan to have those who want the cool fresh water go to the caves and those who will keep the signal fire burning stay on the beach? No philosophical arguments needed. If they see a boat, they can send a messenger to the caves, no? Makes about as much sense as 40 people not being able to swim.

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From:falafel_musings
Date:July 18th, 2008 06:52 pm (UTC)

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Oh, that's an interesting way to explain the divide (although at the caves Jack was being pragmatic and the others seemed interested in comfort and safety - Hurley, I don't think, was being drawn to the island)

Hmn. I phrased that badly. For me, the striking thing about the closing montage was that the cave gang looked more relaxed and comfortable (Hurley listening to his walkman, Charlie playing guitar, Sun trying on dresses) while the beach gang are mostly sitting hunched around the signal fire with very grim expressions. It's ironic because Sawyer brands the cave gang as the pessimists, but it's the beach gang that look more gloomy. Maybe comfort is the dividing factor. Claire and Mike/Walt moved to the caves later after they started to feel more comfortable, where as Charlie moved back to the beach after Ethan tried to kill him and he became more wary. Later in the season it's unclear who's living where then after the S2 premiere the caves were never seen again (sigh...I miss the caves).

I never understood the big to-do about Caves vs. Beach.

Right. It made sense to have two camps. The people on the beach needed to keep the fire going. The people at the caves needed to bring water. It was a good system.
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From:pacejunkie
Date:July 18th, 2008 06:58 pm (UTC)

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"Look up", and Charlie's reaction, reminded me of Desmond's "you have to lift it up" to Jack in the stadium - both could be interpreted as religious and both Charlie and Jack misinterpreted what was meant; whether it was literal or spiritual.

And of course "Look up" reminds me of Eko's "Lift up your eyes and look north, John 3:05"

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From:luna481516
Date:July 18th, 2008 07:41 pm (UTC)

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And of course "Look up" reminds me of Eko's "Lift up your eyes and look north, John 3:05"

Ah yes. The inscription that was there all along but that Locke only noticed, dun dun dun, at the end of an episode *cue Lost gong*.
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From:pacejunkie
Date:July 18th, 2008 03:08 pm (UTC)
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I'm slow to see this ep this week on account of having a visitor in the house. I hope to get to it before next week. I remember it pretty well, and it is one of my favourites for both the main and subplot but I still want to view again and see if I pick up on anything new. I generally find Sun/Jin backstory to be boring but I love the island stories in this one. Charlie starts to feel like a third wheel in the Jack/Kate A team. The beehive was hilarious. I wonder what would have happened if Charlie had followed Locke to the hatch and all that instead of being paired with Claire. Yeah, I know, he'd have ended up dead but his character pretty much died once Aaron was born anyway, just thinking of different paths.

I think this montage was my favourite of all of them. I love that song and the way its used to show the split. It gives the episode a very satisfying conclusion and feels complete.
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From:falafel_musings
Date:July 18th, 2008 06:42 pm (UTC)
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I wonder what would have happened if Charlie had followed Locke to the hatch and all that instead of being paired with Claire. Yeah, I know, he'd have ended up dead but his character pretty much died once Aaron was born anyway, just thinking of different paths.

Nah, neither Aaron, nor Claire, were the reason Charlie died. Darlton's lack of imagination and their favoritism of other characters was the factor. I've been writing Charlie fic for ages now and I've never found his storyline is limited due to his emotional connection to Aaron and Claire. I still think that emotional connection was a good thing for Charlie's character, Darlton just don't know what to do with their opportunities.
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From:pacejunkie
Date:July 18th, 2008 06:55 pm (UTC)
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Well that's what I mean. On the show, once Charlie started playing baby daddy, he stopped doing anything else.
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From:falafel_musings
Date:July 18th, 2008 07:07 pm (UTC)
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I'm just saying it didn't have to be that way. It's Darltons fault, not the stories (or Aarons) fault. Charlie could have gone on dangerous underwater missions all the time if they had let him. Same as how they never let Jin do anything.
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From:pacejunkie
Date:July 18th, 2008 07:19 pm (UTC)
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I never said whose fault it was Cappy. :) Just making an observation. Deep breath.
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From:matitablu
Date:July 18th, 2008 03:45 pm (UTC)

tiny spoilers

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Didn't take as many notes as the previous time, but here are my two cents...

- again, Sayid acts as he knows Sun understands English.

- lol at Charlie's snark at Jack and Kate "verbally copulating". Feels like he was talking for half of the audience now :-)

- Adam and Eve! This is supposed to be one of the biggest clues in the whole series, right? Too bad I have no idea of what it means -_-;; Although my latest pet theory is that they are Desmond and Penny... On the other hand, I'm not sure those characters were already planned back in the beginning of S1. Yet, Kate saying, later in the ep, "I don't want to be Eve"... Mmh...

Edited at 2008-07-18 03:48 pm (UTC)
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From:luna481516
Date:July 18th, 2008 05:02 pm (UTC)
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- This was a Jack/Kate episode as much as a Sun/Jin episode, and they contrast one couple with another. It opens on Sun, watching Kate teasing Jack about his tattooes. She looks unhappy. As the flirtatious party walks by, Sun watches her husband ungracefully whacking a fish against a rock. Later Jack and Kate make the Adam & Eve discovery, with the mild symbolism that they each are half-naked and only notice it after Charlie calls attention to it. Kate later declares “I don’t want to be Eve” and stays at the beach, with the fade-over of Jack and Kate thinking of the other. Kate has tears in her eyes at the beach campfire. In the script that was released for this episode, the notes say something like “part of Kate would like him to ask her to be Eve, but that’s not the part of her that’s calling the shots.”

-Best Monologue goes Michael with the axe. Jin must have been even more terrified not being able to understand what he was saying. “…why let a 20,000 dollar watch go to waste which is ridiculous since time doesn't matter on a damn island.!” Whack. Jin actually looks down at his wrist to see if his hand was severed after Michael swings the axe. What a feeling.
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From:pacejunkie
Date:July 18th, 2008 07:00 pm (UTC)
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Kate later declares “I don’t want to be Eve”

Many people now wonder if this is forshadowing and whether Kate will in fact turn out to be Eve after all, hopefully corresponding to a change in her character going from running all the time to settling down, as she appears to be doing.
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From:pacejunkie
Date:July 19th, 2008 03:36 am (UTC)

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Okay finally saw this. Still has that wonderful ensemble feel yeah you know the one yadda yadda yadda. Despite the focus on Sun and Jin, nearly everyone had their moment (except Claire who was MIA and Boone and Shannon who were minimally present). Still, they sure did make Jin out to be a monster at first, and considering how we later found out he hated his work and Sun's father too, I'm not completely sure why he would beat up Michael over the watch, except that his thug behaviour is kind of ingrained and the watch really represents a lot of what Jin hates, not what he respects. Thoughts? Love the reveal that Sun spoke English. Overall another very strong episode. It felt like it had a lot packed into it, whereas lately I feel hardly anything happens in each episode at all.
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From:doctors_girl
Date:July 21st, 2008 05:20 pm (UTC)

slight spoilers for further seasons

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For me THE MOMENT of this episode is when Sun reveals to Michael she speaks English. I already suspected this, but still it was such a huge moment and gave an extiting twist to her character. They told us with one simple thing that she's a much more complex character she might seem to be and we always got more proof to that as the series continued. Also love the Michael/Sun bond. I was never sure I would like them in a romantic way, because I just LOVE Jin and Sun, but the Michael/Sun thing is very intriguing too, great dynamics between the characters. Just like the Jin/Michael friendship BTW. Those three were just great in season 1, I love their arc and I think Jin is one of the characters who had gone thourgh an amazing development during the seasons. How different is this Jin from the further seasons' sweet and loving Jin, who actually respects his wife! And Daniel dae Kim is just amazing people. Also Yunjin, it's not mentioned very often but I think those two are among the most talented actors in Lost.

I just miss the times when there was more time for character development and character interactions.

I'm kinda conflicted about this epoisode though, because I just love the Jin-Sun-Michael plot, and the first Korean flashbacks, but I totally hate the Jack/Kate stuff. OK, it's needed to be said, I hate Jack/Kate with a passion, I admit. There will be no ship bashing here on my part though, I promise, I just want to say that all the forced bonding between them in this ep bugs me, all those ridiculous flirting while those 2 people still don't know shit about each other and have major differencies in their POVs.

Adam and Eve. *sigh* I think it's the thing which bugs me most about Lost. Still no mention about them since it's ep, they had the black and white stones, time-travelling has been introduced to the show since then and I fear the reveal of Adam and Eve will be a huge shocker sometime at the end of the series. I don't like Kate's "I don't want to be Eve" remark, becauise it would be so blatant if she turned out to be Eve. I really REALLY hope they are not people we already know, and more I hope they are not Jack and Kate. I would just hate it, that would be so simple.

Random: Sayid and Sawyer stopping Jin beaiting up Michael! Great times, and great foreshadowing of Sayid/Sawyer team of awesome.